Grandfather VS Grandchild

Grandfather

Grandchild

I don't really know what motivated me to compare them. I just want to.

I will point out the differences that are most significant to me.
[Feel free to comment if you want to add more]

Dorsal
For me, both are sailfin because the dorsal fin width is at least half of body length. Dorsal bases (where the dorsal is attached to the body) are still wide.
Grandfather has a nicer shape because its more rectangular. More broad
Grandchild has a broad dorsal too (check out the base). However, the shape doesn't give it that impression though.
First rays play an important role. Grandfather has an abrupt increase in dorsal ray length while grandchild has a more gradual increase in dorsal ray length. Hence, grandchild's dorsal shape is more smooth and rounded.

Body
Grandfather has a typical betta body
Grandchild has a thicker, stockier body...this evidences a strong dt background (even though both of his parents are singletails carrying DT)
Toplines are both smooth.

Ventral, Anal, Caudal
All are pretty much the same to me. The shape of the anal fin is uniform for the line. I'm seeing a trend to a more symmetrical look.
Caudal is still rounded. I will have to work on that.

Color
Honestly, I have no idea how Grandfather carried marble. Grandchild's father is a copper marble. When Grandchild was younger, he was a solid copper then marbled out into his current color. It pretty much stabilized now.
Grandfather showed the typical black base my coppers have.


The Winner
For me, Grandfather still wins. I am planning to cross Grandchild to Grandfather's two DT daugthers. They are Grandchild's aunties. I hope to get more of Grandfather's blood into the next batches of fry. I am yet to see a reincarnation of Grandfather but I am hoping.

More about dorsals here: http://babyfishbreeder.blogspot.com/2013/03/what-dorsal.html

UPDATE (10/23/2013)
I see fry from Grandchild x DT aunts.
They are almost all DT! Grandchild really has strong DT blood in him.I crossed the aunties to other related fish. They threw in some singletails. I'm planning to bump the DT produced by him to these STs. I hope for more Sailfin HMPK to come my way!

What a Dorsal!

check this out: http://www.qldaf.com/forums/bettas-79/3-week-old-betta-fry-80851/index2.html

this guy's got full sailfins on his bettas!
I wish I can produce fish like those!

I am inspired!

One thing is for sure though, I have several fish that do show very broad dorsal (but not as broad as the ones in the link) but the genes have not yet been fixed. These fish just pop out from spawn to spawn. It is inconsistent so far.

Here is what I look at for my bettas' dorsals:
1. base: the base is where the dorsal fin is attached to the body. The broader the dorsal base, the better. I always look at it in relation to the base of the anal fin. I always look for at least 50% ratio (dorsal base length / anal base length).
2. first rays: the next thing I look at is the first rays of the dorsal. The longer, the better. If they are longer, they give the dorsal more volume and better spread.
3. branching: the more extensive the branching, the wider spread and bigger volume. I saw these links in bettysplendens.com: Dorsals part 1 and Dorsal part 2. I am aiming for this, too but it is the last thing on my list.

Example:One of my first self-bred "sailfin" coppers

1. Base: The ratio is 2/3 or around 67%. That means the dorsal base is 2/3 the length of the anal base
2. First rays: The first rays of this fish is very short. They appear as mere protrusions from the body. Generally, the pattern is that the rays are getting longer as they get nearer the caudal. The idea for me is they are of equal length to each other.
3. branching: while the two other traits give the dorsal a broad look already, I will look into the branching. They are basically two-ray branching. Fair enough. But if they could go to 4-rays that would be better as the dorsal will spread more and would possibly flush forward. If it flushes forward, this would give the dorsal a better appearance.

Family Line:

May 15, 2013: I have bred this male to a spawn sister. The offspring (F3) produced a good number of DTs but the singletails do not exhibit the sailfin dorsal like the male. I crossed the F3: a Marble HMPK male and a Copper HMPK female. I transferred the small fry today. Some of the bigger ones are showing broad dorsal bases. I hope all of the singletails will be sailfins and I hope doubletails will also pop up. I want to do an F5 spawn in the future.

My Betta Breeds

Copper Red HMPK male (descended from Copper Red PK-geno Delta and Copper HMPK)


Cellophane HMPK male (descended from Red Dragon x Marble)


Melano PK male (descended from Metallic Steel HMPK x Copper PK)


Grizzle HMPK male (brother to Cellophane)


 Metallic Steel HMPK male (brother to Melano)


Copper PK female (niece of Melano and Metallic Steel)



Black Lace HMPK male (sibling of Copper PK female)


Metallic Steel Blue Marble (sibling of Copper PK female)
This one has a really promising dorsal but I can't say that for the rest of the fins. This fish is related (albeit, very, very distantly) to my current Copper Line. I would say the line is really inclined to broad dorsals.

Here is a link to the new one: My Betta Breeds 2